15:07:04 test test test test test  test test test test test test test test test testtest test test test test test
15:08:25 ......... We have the Portland fair housing plan and we also have a discussion about our meeting schedule.
15:08:32 To get us started I do have a slide show.
15:10:20 The meeting went really well.
15:10:21 I'm very excited about it.
15:10:23 I want to let you all know that happened.
15:10:24 The next meeting will be in march.
15:10:36 The executive committee which is  Maris, Jay and the staff will meet before the full commit committee meeting.
15:10:47 I want to make sure you're aware and all included on any meeting invites if you'd like to come in and listen but it is an executive committee meeting so it's not a full committee meeting.
15:10:49 Does anybody have any questions about though updates?
15:10:54 All right.
15:10:54 Awesome.
15:11:04 So next agenda item is to review the audit test report and I will pass it over to Jay to lead us through that conversation.
15:11:14 >> Jay:
15:11:16 >> JAMILA: I was in a full-on scripted everything.
15:11:17 Sorry about that.
15:11:33 Last month at the executive meeting, we decided we needed to make sure we all actually know what we're doing here and what is going on and what we've been hearing from the report so we're just going to -- I'm going to -- I'd love -- I know you all can't turn on your cameras, not
15:11:39 everyone can, but part of my skill is a facilitator.
15:11:44 I try to look at people's facial expressions to see if folks are getting things or not.
15:11:47 If you can turn on your camera for this conversation, that'll be great.
15:11:49 If you can't, I understand it.
15:11:58 I would like to go through and have as rich of a conversation as we have about what we heard in October.
15:12:06 What were the key take-aways from the audit or 1st question is do you all remember the audit test report?
15:12:09 Yes!
15:12:10 That's Taylor.
15:12:13 Do we have -- is Taylor the only one?
15:12:15 You can go ahead.
15:12:16 Yes.
15:12:25 Um, do -- can I ask anyone what the key take-aways they found?
15:12:31 What were the key take-aways?
15:12:39 We can unmute our mics and have a conversation.
15:12:47 It's very uncomfortable trying to facilitate something where folks are -- so if y'all want to just unmute and start talking, that would be ideal for me.
15:12:50 Sorry, Taylor, to interrupt.
15:12:53 >> Taylor: No worries at all.
15:12:56 I appreciate what you like in facilitation.
15:12:57 Helps us know what to do.
15:13:08 From me coming from home gladder, one of the key take-aways was the -- home forward, one of the key take-aways was the ongoing discrimination against people who have a voucher.
15:13:09 Source of income discrimination.
15:13:12 There was also a lot of evidence of racial discrimination as well.
15:13:17 In the report, I remember it can't necessarily look at the intersection of those types of discrimination.
15:13:31 That's something I'm really interested in is that for voucher-holders, all of the different intersecting forms of discrimination impacting black and brown voucher-holders is something I took away from the report, but I know that wasn't everything.
15:13:33 Those were just things I held onto.
15:13:33 >> JAMILA: Thank you.
15:13:35 Thank you.
15:13:59 Mara: One of the things I was thinking about is how hard Covid has made the testing but also how much easier that has made discrimination I guess in some ways, so I was just kind of reflecting on that a lot afterwards and that in so many ways the pandemic has highlighted the
15:14:01 inequalities that were already there.
15:14:02 I think that happened in fair housing as well.
15:14:05 So been reflecting on that.
15:14:24 But also just been trying to think about how I guess just thinking about how to connect -- I guess I've just been struggling to find solutions, I guess, is the easiest way to say that based on that presentation.
15:14:33 It just feels like a lot of the things that have been done in the past aren't helping, so I felt kind of -- a little discouraged, I guess, after that report.
15:14:35 >> JAMILA: Thank you.
15:14:38 Anyone else?
15:14:57 >> MARISA: I would just offer one of the things that stains out to me when we look at this report -- stands out to me when we look at this report every year is the opportunity to investigate further and follow up more with enforcement which is so very difficult without adequate
15:14:57 resources.
15:15:10 So it definitely gives us a lot of information that is really critical to prioritizing where to moving further and things like that.
15:15:18 We have a lack of resource to fully enforce these really important laws.
15:15:37 >> JAMILA: Yeah, that was one thing that really rubbed me wrong was the lack of enforcement and -- and just knowing that, you know, we enforce parking tickets, so we -- there are things we find important to enforce and those things pay for the resources to continue to enforce
15:15:52 them, so it just -- we're always coming up against this when we're talking about marginalized folks for me, we don't really -- we consider them as an after-thought and not as a guiding -- a guiding them.
15:15:56 So that came up for me.
15:16:18 >> BARBARA: This is Barbara.
15:16:18 I'm on the phone.
15:16:19 I agree.
15:16:33 I didn't see anything in the work plan or in the audit or in the impediments report that really speaks to enforcement, so there's just this consistent lack of enforcement.
15:16:35 I thought that's why we were here.
15:16:56 I thought our committee is not called advisory committee, it's called advocacy committee, but I'm beginning to understand that our role is maybe more advisory than advocacy, but I did have a question on this -- in this audit report.
15:16:59 I noticed that you mentioned agent.
15:17:16 And I do not recall in any other report that I've read -- and I've been attending these meetings for several years now -- I don't recall seeing agent.
15:17:22 I recall reference to landlords and their conduct but I didn't -- so could you just tell me what you mean by agent, please?
15:17:39 >>  ALLAN: We tend to use agents as anyone a representative as the housing provider, right?
15:17:53 When we talk about an agent, it is somebody who is representing the landlord or housing provider, so that's what we tend to refer to as agent rather than real estate agent or in that pure context of a real estate broker or something like that.
15:17:58 So it's an agent as in someone acting on behalf of the landlord or housing provider.
15:18:18 And the point is that part of that is that all of the agents who act on behalf of a single housing provider should be providing the same information across the board that just because we talked to one agent and talked to a different one, they shouldn't have different answers.
15:18:21 >> BARBARA: That is true.
15:18:43 I don't ever refer to myself as an agent but as a principle real estate broker both here and in California and I do that because I'm proud of that, however agent, if you're saying that these people are representing someone else, they're third parties, shouldn't they be licensed
15:18:51 in which case we should be talking about licensees who are violating the law?
15:19:00 >> ALLEN: Agent on as acting on behalf of the owner or the housing provider or the property management.
15:19:05 Because that could be, you know, in some larger systems, that could be several different people.
15:19:07 That's what we talk about as agents.
15:19:18 I think it's a different conversation if, yeah, if -- as to what licensing might look like in the rental property industry for sure, yeah, but we don't refer -- in our context, it's not about licensing.
15:19:42 >> BARBARA: But it's extremely important because licensing laws are very specific in violations of fair housing might very much seriously impact one's license.
15:19:48 So I would like to continue this conversation.
15:20:04 I want -- when I talk about who should be licensed and who does not need to be licensed, I want to make sure that I'm precise in Oregon law, because California law is quite different in who should be licensed.
15:20:09 And then maybe we can correct that, because I didn't want to give people the wrong impression.
15:20:25 I certainly got the wrong impression, because I think if these people are representing -- the third parties are representing someone else, they fall under a different category and they're subject to agency laws and a lot of other things like that which have an impact on fair
15:20:28 housing enforcement so -- any way.
15:20:29 OK.
15:20:29 And that's all.
15:20:30 Thank you.
15:20:44 >> JAMILA: I have a question for you, Barbara, are you saying that if I'm an agent f I'm a real estate agent or rental agent or even a managing company, I need to be licensed to do so?
15:20:58 And if I could -- -- and if I get a license, I'm under a different set of rules that could be reported to someone that could impact my license?
15:21:19 >> BARBARA: You know, the real estate agency here in Oregon -- and I have been going to their meetings also for years -- they don't enforce fair housing laws, however, violations of fair housing law in my 45 years in the business are not isolated.
15:21:44 They generally accompany violations of other laws that perhaps the real estate agency does enforce laws so -- and I actually wish they would put out some clear definition of what it is they do enforce versus what they don't enforce.
15:21:52 But, yeah, if you are working for the owner of a property, you do not need to be licensed.
15:22:20 The license requirement is waived, but there are a lot of companies, IBM comes to mind or guardian or reach -- well, reach does its own properties, but any company that represents the contracts with an owner as a third party, the only relationship is that contract, they do need
15:22:23 to be licensed, someone there needs to be licensed.
15:22:34 Why the individual, property managers don't need to be licensed, I'm not really clear at this point.
15:22:35 I'm going to look into it.
15:22:38 This really brought it to mind when I heard agent.
15:22:44 Because the term is generally used to describe licensees.
15:22:47 Does that answer -- I'm sorry.
15:22:50 >> JAMILA: Kind of.
15:22:52 Becky.
15:22:53 Kind of.
15:22:58 I'm trying to -- I was just going towards what does enforcement look like?
15:23:00 And if -- you know, that's where I'm going with this.
15:23:01 Thank you, Becky.
15:23:06 Becky sent over property -- welcome to property management in Oregon real estate.
15:23:10 So Becky sent us a link so we can do our own research.
15:23:11 Thank you.
15:23:18 Is there -- -- go ahead.
15:23:27 >> BARBARA: Was that a pamphlet that was recently produced?
15:23:28 >> JAMILA: There's a link in the chat.
15:23:29 Thank you, Becky.
15:23:35 >> BARBARA: I did try to join that work group.
15:23:44 I'm scheduled to be on the agency work group when that comes around, so I will be able to speak a little bit more intelligently on this matter.
15:23:46 >> JAMILA: Thank you.
15:24:04 Is there anyone else that wants to speak to the take-aways?
15:24:30 >> DUNG: I definitely agree with the concerns we're talking about with enforcement being a mechanism we need for avoiding all of these discriminatory situations that people are facing and then the other thing that really stood out to me was just the -- some of the solutions that
15:24:46 were offered as far as underreporting from specific cultural groups and their experiences with discrimination and having that education and outreach piece of that.
15:25:05 Just thinking about just individual situations that we hear about on the hotline, you know, if it could simply be that the agent was required by law or some kind of mechanism where they would have to truthfully and honestly say this is how many units are available and open right
15:25:21 now was, you know, we know they don't necessarily need to say what is actually open and available and that's where some of those questions of how does a tenant know they're being discriminated against if they're just going to believe that, OK, well, the agent told me.
15:25:35 There's no more units left or there's no pending applications so at this point, there's not really anything available to me, but really it comes down to it's not available to them specifically because of that discriminatory piece.
15:25:56 So just things like that it kind of comes to mind of, you know, when we talk about labor law or something like that, these are the kinds of questions that you are allowed to answer and ask about a potential employee, you know, but we have more of a gray area when it comes to what
15:26:05 can and can't be answered and asked and whether that's truthfully being answered or not in this area.
15:26:08 >> JAMILA: Thank you.
15:26:09 Thank you.
15:26:12 Is there anyone else?
15:26:26 I will call on you.
15:26:35 All right.
15:26:48 Well, so, Allan, is there anything that you didn't hear today that you feel like we should have taken away.
15:27:00 >> ALLAN: The one thing I'll continue to repeat and I'm glad it doesn't come out here is the sense that the report is intended to be this statistical kind of evidence of how much discrimination occurs.
15:27:09 Again, you know, for me any way, when I bring this information forward, it's not to say -- to try to prove whether or not discrimination exists.
15:27:23 We know folks are experiencing discrimination in the marketplace, what this report tells us in a way is in part how it's happening, what it looks like and I think as folks did come away with, what needs to be done about it?
15:27:28 I appreciate the enforcement.
15:27:36 We know that's part of the solution and getting to a point where folks are being held accountable for what is happening is vitally important.
15:27:40 I just don't know what exactly -- what that solution looks like frankly.
15:27:43 >> JAMILA: Thank you.
15:27:58 So that really takes me to the next question that I'd like what you to ask and, Barbara, you kind of said it, what does -- can you all summarize what our role is here?
15:28:08 Nobody knows either?
15:28:09 Ha-ha.
15:28:11 So we don't know?
15:28:13 >> NIKI: I'm going to jump in!
15:28:14 I know!
15:28:18 >> JAMILA: Anyone else for Nikkei or Allan!
15:28:28 >> BARBARA: What is our role?
15:28:29 This is Barbara.
15:28:33 >> JAMILA: What is our role?
15:28:51 Nis dung, Taylor or Mara?
15:28:51 >>
15:29:09 >> MARA: Coming to the table as an advocate, for me it's hard to find the balance and figure out what I'm doing in that space so mostly, I've just been trying to listen and learn and I'm appreciative for being in space with everyone so far that I've gotten to learn from.
15:29:25 Super appreciative for that, but I guess I still have a little bit of worry, you know -- I guess the reason I felt like part of the reason I was selected is for some of the knowledge I have around disability and fair housing and that's what I feel like I bring to this, for
15:29:43 example like, you know, the laws that protect folks with disabilities have long been argued over and, you know, there's a issue around right to counsel which is what we call it being the major piece missing from pretty much all the advocacy work that we do.
15:29:49 It feels like maybe it's that way for all the protected classes.
15:29:55 That follow-up is just not there and the knowledge we need to support them along the way isn't always there in fair housing.
15:30:01 Council could only do so much, but any way, that's kind of the little bit I took away.
15:30:03 I want this to be useful.
15:30:14 I'm -- so far, though, I'm mostly using it as useful for myself in learning and I hope to be useful for my community soon through this process but I don't know what it'll look like.
15:30:16 >> JAMILA: Thank you.
15:30:23 Anyone else?
15:30:37 >> TAYLOR: I'm not clear on the role.
15:30:49 Originally it was this group would review the analysis of pedimentses and be the city's fair housing plan but there's a lack of clarity for me about whether those things are happening and on what schedule given the change in federal law.
15:30:55 I think during our last conversation, we talked about how we wanted to see the analysis of impediments happen.
15:30:58 I would like to hear of an update on where that is.
15:31:02 I'll be honest that I'm not totally clear but I'm eager to help.
15:31:06 >> JAMILA: Thank you for that honesty, Taylor, I love it.
15:31:16 >> FANNY: This is Fannie, my second meeting here with you guys.
15:31:36 I have a summary of what this group is but just by attending a few, I come into the group seeing myself more as an advocate for fair housing, not so much advisory, until -- I don't think it's not not possible to be an advisory group but just from the suggestions I've heard
15:31:51 so far, I think they're great suggestions but we just need to find out what organizations or groups are out there at a higher-up state level that could actually make some of our demands into action to see change happen.
15:32:13 I think the recommendation that someone made earlier about asking the property management companies for someone to be licensed for tenants to see -- you know, in realtime listings so they know if they're being discriminated or not, those are great asks but, um, we need to just
15:32:17 find who could help us turn that into action.
15:32:25 >> JAMILA: Thank you, Fannie.
15:32:27 I apologize for mispronouncing your name.
15:32:28 Anyone else?
15:32:38 >> MARISA: I can offer two two cents here.
15:33:01 Like Taylor was saying, we know the exact definition of the world feels in flux due to changing federal requirements but when I look at potential in the ways that this group could make an impact -- I think Barb is -- what's that?
15:33:02 There we go.
15:33:18 I think about, you know, obviously these are mostly federal laws although state of Oregon has specific protected classes as well when it comes to fair housing, which is super exciting, but then we think that Portland is one jurisdiction of many and at the same time I know that --
15:33:37 I've kind of said this before but there's this opportunity for Portland to be a leader, not only in Oregon but nationwide, like, you know, the fair ordinance or other cities that are wanting to potentially replicate this policy or arguing it, but just ways that we could really
15:33:46 think about how we translate these larger impacts into the pull of resources that we have at our disposal.
15:34:08 You know, to really direct as much as possible this work around fair housing and how, you know, Tayloring it to our community but really -- tailoring it to our community but really looking at ways from my point of view to really try to make recommendations around regulations
15:34:15 around the housing market, so really advancing a more regulatory approach to fair housing.
15:34:20 That to me feels like a big potential for this group.
15:34:34 It sounds policyish but to me it fields like a place we can make an impact especially when it comes to what questions are we asking or what specific areas are we saying, no, we need to know more or we need to do more.
15:34:46 We aren't always going to have the ability to do everything on our wish list, but we could try to be very careful with the choices we have available, so that would just be my two cents.
15:34:53 >> JAMILA: Thank you.
15:34:59 Is there anyone else?
15:35:07 >> ASHLEY: I'll jump in here.
15:35:17 Because I haven't spoken in these meetings before, I will clarify that Rachel and Macy and I are employees of the city of Gresham.
15:35:28 We work with Gresham's federal home and CBDG funding and we're in the consortium with Portland and Multnomah county for those funds.
15:35:34 Our participation in the FHAC is a jurisdictional partner.
15:35:40 Ours are more observational and related to Hud requirements for fair housing.
15:35:51 So we're also as Taylor mentioned waiting to see what Hud comes out with the fair housing rule or report or requirement.
15:35:58 Yeah, I wanted to jump in and add that so you all know that Rachel and I aren't just black boxes with our names.
15:36:08 We are here but we're just usually observing what's going on and everyone's ideas and, you know, potentially translating what we can to the city of Gresham as well.
15:36:11 >> JAMILA: Thank you.
15:36:15 I wasn't trying to call you out.
15:36:15 Yes, I was.
15:36:17 I'll do it again, I promise.
15:36:29 Allan or Nikkei, do you -- can you clarify what our role is here and the potential we have?
15:36:38 >> NIKI: Yeah, I think Allan can provide historical context but Ultimately I'm thecap php staff.
15:36:40 We love you, Allan, for your expertise.
15:36:42 Sometimes we're always pulling you in.
15:36:47 The fair housing planning is a primarily task, right?
15:37:01 I know we all kind of have different feelings about that planning process and how extensive -- and we all already have a good knowledge and idea of community experience about things we would like to see Dutch done.
15:37:04 -- to see done.
15:37:08 I know that's been vague as Ashley and Taylor have pointed out.
15:37:26 I was trying to jump in a little bit earlier not so much to clarify what it is but to say that, you know, we do finally have a bit of a plan that I'm hoping will add some structure to this process around planning and around getting to recommendations, right?
15:37:33 But the next question is, you know, how much does the committee want to advocate for those recommendations, right?
15:37:38 To actually go into effect, to be employed and to enter our communities?
15:37:40 How do we identify ways for that to happen?
15:37:44 As has been discussed?
15:37:47 Who are the agencies we need to be advocates and be talking to?
15:37:51 That's a whole, you know, separate part as well.
15:38:03 The first part is as a group, right, and having a plan and having an idea and having analysis and things to back up our recommendations so that we're in a strong position, so I think there's kind of two roles, right?
15:38:19 One is that, yeah, it's an advisory body that's going to help us get to a fair housing plan and that could be the analysis of impediments or whatever version head comes out within the end, in the interim, I have the Portland fair housing plan for you guys to look at today as
15:38:24 something to kind of get us started and then the second part is what else could the committee do?
15:38:35 And I think there's a lot of flexibility in that and that role is going to be, you know, up to the committee themselves on how much we want to take  on on advocating that.
15:38:46 And I'm personally here to support you and the city of Portland is here to support you and our jurisdictional partners are here to hear what you have to say and assist in the best way we can to continue to do that advocacy work.
15:38:52 Thank you, Jay.
15:39:05 >> MARA: That might include statements about support of -- OK, we'd have the power to have an opinion basically f that makes sense?
15:39:05 OK.
15:39:09 >> NIKI: Yep, you guys could certainly have an opinion.
15:39:10 That's why you're here.
15:39:13 It's really kind of how do we get here?
15:39:34 We'll pick up this conversation again later but I think we decided we wanted to do a plan and then without any kind of structure to that in the absence of HUD guidance, how do we guide ourselves to a group to get a consensus around the policies we feel would be best suited to
15:39:41 deal with the issues we're seeing and do we have the best data to back up and inform and educate us on providing those recommendations?
15:39:53 And I do feel that between Covid and quarterly meetings and staff turnover and the lack of HUD guidance, it's been unclear.
15:39:55 I'm fully aware of that.
15:40:12 I'm hoping after today with our lovely chair and vice chair and some structure provided in a plan, we can all have a little bit more clarity on how we're moving forward and then start to think about how can we leverage this committee to write letters to advocate for certain
15:40:15 things, to look into making the changes we want to see.
15:40:25 >> JAMILA: Thank you, Allan?
15:40:30 >> ALLAN: Thank you, Nis niki.
15:40:31 That was 100% on point.
15:40:51 Folks, while the root of what we're doing here is providing input into this plan and making sure it moves forward, the real key is that we're all here bringing a certain level of expertise or perspective from a community that not justifies into the plan but also -- that not
15:40:55 just feeds into the plan but also demands us to be the ones to make something happen with that plan.
15:41:00 We always talk about plans and we don't want it to be this thing that just sits on the shelf.
15:41:03 That's not -- that's up to us!
15:41:10 We can put the elements into the plan because they're important to us and important to the aspects we work on.
15:41:24 And then we also have to demand that those elements that are in the plan be fulfilled, that there's a level of accountability that we should be looking at moving forward.
15:41:31 And so an example for me would be this conversation we just had about enforcement, right?
15:41:35 We could put in the plan it should look like something but then there are steps beyond that to make it happen.
15:41:43 Is it dollars, the way we're asking PHB to dedicate their dollars?
15:41:47 The way we're asking state level funders to dedicate their dollars?
15:41:52 If it's legislative pieces, what's that legislation look like and licensing all across the board?
15:41:59 It doesn't end with the plan, it actually starts at the plan, so while that's Ultimately what we're doing here, it's actually not the end goal.
15:42:00 It's really the beginning.
15:42:13 And so that's I think what the charge for the committee is, so don't see the plan as the end but the very first step in doing the work that I think we all signed up for.
15:42:20 >> JAMILA: Thank you for that it looks like how long are we willing to fight?
15:42:29 Mara.
15:42:30 Is next.
15:42:32 How long have we been doing this?
15:42:36 >> NIKI: A year and a half.
15:42:38 Time is passing in an interesting way for me.
15:42:44 I don't know how everyone else feels but, yeah, it's been a year and a half, I believe.
15:42:45 OK.
15:42:49 Well let's bounce forward.
15:42:51 >> JAMILA: Before we go real quick do we have time?
15:43:01 >> MARA: Sounds a lot like what it going with the Metro housing dollars right now.
15:43:04 There were a lot of conditions about how that money should be spent.
15:43:16 This year, we're starting to look at basically making sure that they actually did everything they were supposed to do and then people will be losing funding, you know, and so it's -- I think the accountability part is important, right?
15:43:21 It's like, hey, listen, we're going to get this up front and you're going to have community involvement.
15:43:25 You're going to get the -- you're going to get where you're moving to -- you know what I mean?
15:43:29 And all of these conditions they have to meet, and then they're going to be checked in on.
15:43:32 And then they may lose their funding if they don't.
15:43:36 Those are the kinds of things I want to take a look at for fair housing, too.
15:43:42 I like what marisa said in advancing the fair housing approach.
15:43:45 That's what truly protects us, I feel like, at the end of the  day.
15:43:54 So I appreciate all of the clarity and for the executive committee for putting these questions forward and thank you.
15:44:01 >> JAMILA: We have two more minutes before time.
15:44:09 >> BARBARA: This is Barbara again.
15:44:10 Can I say something?
15:44:12 OK, great.
15:44:15 I heard a couple of things and I hope I heard them correctly.
15:44:18 One, with regard to laws, the laws are in place.
15:44:19 They've been in place.
15:44:30 Fair housing act was enacted in 1968, so it's over 50 years that fair housing laws have been in place.
15:44:33 Hud has been promoting this for as long as I can remember.
15:44:55 I've been licensed in real estate since 1977, lifetime ago, and I'm in two states a real estate.
15:45:01 For the 45 years I've certainly been in real estate, fair housing has been taken seriously.
15:45:05 This isn't anything new.
15:45:08 With regard to creating new  laws, I don't think we need new laws.
15:45:09 There are plenty of laws that are in place.
15:45:12 The problem is enforcement.
15:45:16 And I think that's what we need to look at.
15:45:26 The second problem is something I've referred to and brought up in different ways in different meetings, what exactly is race discrimination?
15:45:30 What is fair housing?
15:45:36 And I still haven't heard -- I haven't contributed to any discussion about that.
15:45:50 I did hear an interesting statistic from someone from home forward -- I think this was last month -- that 10% of black people experience 40% of harassment in housing.
15:45:58 Harassment is the number one way that we keep people of color like myself out of housing.
15:46:06 After they become tenants or after they're in place, but -- and we need to address this.
15:46:11 So if home forward -- where do they get that statistic?
15:46:12 I just found that really remarkable.
15:46:15 But I wasn't in a position to follow up with it.
15:46:19 So I would really like to take a look at what is discrimination?
15:46:24 How does it present?
15:46:52 And with regard to audit testing -- I brought it up before -- I didn't see about testing where people go in the long, long lists where a person of color signs up on a list and four years later, still no apartment has become available for them whereas other groups have gotten
15:47:00 ahead in the line and secured housing, so that needs to be in our report as well because that's discrimination.
15:47:07 Up until a couple of years ago, even government officials used to say that Portland was the whitest big city in America.
15:47:10 So we have a long way to go.
15:47:23 A long way, but we need to identify what violations look like before we can talk about who's violating and how to stop it.
15:47:24 OK, that's all.
15:47:24 Thanks.
15:47:27 >> JAMILA: Thank you.
15:47:42 Allan posted in the chat, it might be interesting to look at or think about where enforcement actions in other areas are making a difference and how does the system in that particular area that is effected as a deterrent.
15:47:45 Did I say that right?
15:47:48 So when we're talking about parking violations, right?
15:47:53 How are -- how is that deterring people from parking outside or towing?
15:47:54 You know.
15:47:55 It's very simple, y'all.
15:48:03 It's just about what -- like -- it's, you know.
15:48:06 >> MARA: Think about positive and negative, too.
15:48:12 Positive enforcement versus a negative penalty and really building your policy with both of those things included.
15:48:22 That's why when I hear things like, yes, we have that law, right, we have the fair housing structure, but I think honestly that's where all the discussions start.
15:48:39 Like Allan pointed out earlier, now we as cities and states and counties get to figure out the fine details as it relate toes our community and what's going on here with, for example, the affordable housing crunch, you know, there are a lot of things impacting us that are unique
15:48:54 to us and I think, yeah, that's what I -- you know, I hear in that, too, yes, the fair housing act is good, but I think that for what I hear from housing providers and tenants alike is that more clarification is needed, sire.
15:48:55 You know what I mean?
15:48:56 Badly.
15:48:59 >> JAMILA: Thank you.
15:49:00 I love that.
15:49:01 OK.
15:49:06 Well, we have hit time.
15:49:08 >> NIKI: We can circle back to this.
15:49:10 I think there is a lot of discussion.
15:49:18 I'm really happy to see so much engagement and participation, and thank you, Jay, for leading us through this.
15:49:20 We need to take a stop, take public testimony.
15:49:39 Um and then let's circle back and just see if there's anything we want to follow up on, any key things after everybody has spoken that you want me to take note of so that we can circle back when we're looking at the plan or I can also save those notes and we can review it again
15:49:43 when we're looking at these things, because I think there's a lot of great ideas.
15:49:48 So we did have one person that was scheduled for public testimony.
15:49:55 So if I could hear from Michelle Stevenson, if you're in the meeting, feel free to unmute.
15:49:57 And thank you for joining us.
15:50:18 OK.
15:50:23 Is there anyone else that would like to provide public testimony that the time?
15:50:26 Even if you didn't register, we'd love to hear from you.
15:50:29 Feel free to unmute or raise your hand.
15:50:37 OK.
15:50:38 Well that was short enough.
15:50:40 I guess we'll jump back into the conversation.
15:50:57 Um, that is, yeah, OK, so, Jay, can you kind of lead us to a place where do you guys need me to do a follow-up on any of the topics spoken about today?
15:51:07 Would you like me to make any kind of consensus notes or keep what I've captured here and when we get to the enforcement portion of making recommendations, we can look at it again?
15:51:13 And you're muted, Jay.
15:51:16 >> JAMILA: Number 3.
15:51:20 That's what I just -- that's what I -- ha-ha.
15:51:29 I was just so nervous no one would talk for my section, I don't even know where we're going here.
15:51:38 Did anyone have any find thoughts around the audit test or what our role is here or what our next steps could be?
15:51:53 There's one thing I did want to say, just a quick, like, how -- Allan really -- you made it clear that we're at the beginning of something and we could push and we can go as far as we as a group collectively want to go.
15:52:01 I no he later on we're going to be talking about meetings so I guess the question is for people to consider like how far do we want to go with this?
15:52:14 We have what our quarterly meetings but what does it look like for us to, like, really decide to shake some shit up.
15:52:16 I say that word on purpose on record.
15:52:22 That's the question for everybody here is like what is -- why are we here?
15:52:28 Are we spending time to put this on our resume or individually do we really want to push and use our expertise to push hard?
15:52:36 And I'm opening it up on final thoughts.
15:52:39 If no final thoughts, we can move onto our agenda.
15:53:03 >> MARA: I want a recap of what niki and Allan talked about, the duality of trying to shape and advocating then and then to push our recommendations basically it might be nice to have that summarized and then, yeah, I mean, I, one, came to this committee because I wanted to learn
15:53:06 -- like I said earlier -- from everybody, including perspectives different from my own.
15:53:13 That's very important in my advocacy strategy, and, um, just in my ability, I think, to communicate with other people.
15:53:16 Um, I don't just think of this as a resume-builder.
15:53:23 I would like to get people coming for public comment, you know, because they heard about us and want to come talk to us about what we're doing.
15:53:26 Um, you know, and I hope that stuff will grow.
15:53:29 That's what I want to see.
15:53:31 That's my hope for my involvement in this committee.
15:53:42 >> MARISA: I would just offer as more of a process comment.
15:53:47 I thought it was really great to see so much interactive discussion on this topic.
15:53:53 Thank you so much, Jay, because these are really complex issues we all know, and, you know, we're doing this on zoom.
15:53:57 I know a lot of us are really burnt out on zoom.
15:53:59 It's always thrilling when you get a bunch of people on camera interacting.
15:54:10 So thank you so much, Jay, and I hope we can continue to do this, because it really helps to have time to digest as a group some of these topics that feel like they need more time.
15:54:22 >> JAMILA: I'm glad no one came to comment because we don't know what we're doing here.
15:54:24 They would have really known.
15:54:31 >> MARA: In the future, I hope it's stacked up.
15:54:33 Hold up, people, you have to wait.
15:54:34 There's a line at the door.
15:54:35 You know.
15:54:38 >> JAMILA: When we feel confident about what we're doing, I hope that will happen.
15:54:47 >> MARA: With so many things during the pandemic, it feels like hurry and wait.
15:54:49 I feel like this is going to be useful.
15:54:50 I'm in it.
15:54:51 I'm here.
15:54:56 Um and I'm excited even through the ups and downs of it all.
15:55:03 Also shout out to the fair housing council of Oregon's new website.
15:55:04 It's beautiful.
15:55:06 Just putting that out there.
15:55:06 Ha-ha.
15:55:11 >> JAMILA: Thank you, all right.
15:55:15 Well anyone else want to close out or say their final thoughts before we move on?
15:55:30 Matthew?
15:55:30 All right.
15:55:36 Niki, it's yours.
15:55:44 >> NIKI: Jay, you did a lot of work for me, to be honest.
15:55:46 The role and recapping.
15:55:48 I had this kind of review.
15:56:12 So far, I feel like I side bit of it but I'll repeat it again here when it comes to the fair housing planning and how are we moving forward and what are we doing about the reports we're hearing, the analysis that we're hearing, what's happening with the 2011 analysis
15:56:12 impediments?
15:56:15 Those are questions people had.
15:56:17 We're entering into that conversation.
15:56:32 If we can go all the way back to the beginning, we explained to the committee that the federal requirements for federal fair housing planning were unclear at this point and we kind of entered a bit of a holding pattern while we were trying to figure out whether the new
15:56:41 administration was going to give us knows requirements which are very specific and tell us exactly how we need to come up with that plan and move through that process.
15:56:58 That didn't seem to be coming as quickly as I think we would like and we still had this committee meeting and after asking you  all, what I heard back is we do want to move forward with some sort of planning even if it's not required by HUD.
15:57:22 From there, we decided to review the 2011 analysis of impediments and all the associated policy and program recommendations that were in there, but I think it became to me and just from the participation we weren't quite getting where we needed to be looking at old recommendations.
15:57:28 We wanted more information on where we were at.
15:57:44 I told you PHB was going to think about the fair housing plan and how we wanted to move forward and how we could do some more robust planning rather than just moving through that list of analysis of impediments from 2011 since that approach just didn't have enough information for
15:57:45 us to do something meaningful.
15:57:53 So today, I do have a Portland fair housing plan overview ready to talk to you guys about.
15:58:04 I think everybody should have received a memo from me to the committee that was attached with the agenda for the meeting materials and I hope you got the chance to look at that.
15:58:12 It does have quite a few little details in there but there are some key points that I would like to get your feedback on today, if possible.
15:58:23 If we don't have time for that conversation, I could also set up another way for committee members to individually give me back feedback on this plan and on the analysis.
15:58:39 So if you open up that memo, you could look at it there or kind of just highlighted a very very few of this.
15:58:48 It's not an assessment of fair housing because we're not going through every single recommendation, every area of requirements from the federal government, right?
15:59:08 And we don't want to necessarily start that process and have those requirements change and we also engage in resources and it's traditionally multi-jurisdictional process, so the current plan was that we were going to do something that was Portland-specific and so we have named
15:59:09 it the Portland fair housing plan.
15:59:16 In that memo, there's a small section that outline this has committee's role in that  process.
15:59:17 It's on page 1.
15:59:26 The work flow, OK, would essentially be we're going to look in the key areas we want to look at, OK?
15:59:28 Housing affordability.
15:59:34 We want to look at access to opportunity zones like  education, jobs.
15:59:41 We want to look at our accessible housing, and a whole list of factors that are also within that memo.
15:59:59 There'll be a project team consisting primarily of staff from the Portland housing bureau but also from other partner bureaus or partner agencies as relevant to get the data we need and come up with an analysis to present to you all.
16:00:05 We would look at for example all the demographic changes or the changes in housing  affordability, OK?
16:00:07 For a time period.
16:00:24 We would write up that analysis and have all of that data ready for you and then PHB staff would pull out the relevant policy recommendations from the 2011 plan and any new policy recommendations that might be obvious or present themselves.
16:00:28 We would draft that together and present it to this committee.
16:00:28 OK?
16:00:43 Kind of like fair housing council of Oregon did where they presented that audit report to you and Jay just led us through that wonderful discussion where we digested that information and came up with new ideas, some things that maybe we want to follow up with.
16:00:52 We would do that for each portion of analysis and we would get ourselves to a set of new policy or program recommendations in that area.
16:01:11 I would take that information back and come up with a final draft document for you all to review and then in the end, moving through this, we should have a list and a plan by the end that covers a wide variety of topics within fair housing.
16:01:14 I have a little flow chart here.
16:01:21 I've also included community review.
16:01:29 I don't know exactly what that looks like but I think it's important people outside of this committee get a chance to look at the work and look at the recommendations that we come up with.
16:01:42 I will be heavily relying on this committee's expertise in the committee on how to best reach the community at large and the best way to facilitate and incorporate that feedback before we finalize a document.
16:01:58 That process is not sketched out within the memo I gave you, because I'm hoping that will be a product of this committee once we get through the analysis portion and have a good draft that we feel like we're ready to take out to the public.
16:02:07 So the kind of big questions, who will be on the project team?
16:02:13 There's a list within the memo of PHB staff and I've got some placeholders for some other relevant bureaus that I think are important.
16:02:25 I would like you all to take a look at that and we can think about if there's anybody we feel like is missing from this list, I would love to hear back from you on that.
16:02:33 What will be included in the Portland Fair Housing Plan?
16:02:34 That's the question.
16:02:39 I asked in the e-mail to take a look at that list of areas of analysis so we can get some feedback there.
16:02:43 And then how soon would each analysis be ready?
16:02:52 That's the bottom portion of the memo I have outline there had, based on rough estimates of how quickly we feel like we could provide these reports for committee review.
16:03:05 So I'm going to stop right there before I get into the feedback area of the conversation and can you guys let me know how you are feeling about what I just said.
16:03:06 Does it make sense?
16:03:07 Did you get a chance to look at the memo?
16:03:36 >> MARISA: I had a few questions.
16:03:38 I didn't know if you were going get to this.
16:03:43 I actually just got -- I think my internet was weird, so I had to leave and come back.
16:04:09 But I had a few questions, one of the ones that I wanted to bring up first was, um, you know, when you look at this particular -- the layout of the plan and all of the topics within the analysis, I'm wondering if you could speak a little bit to the Hud assessment of fair housing
16:04:16 and how it compares and where decisions were made around what would be included in parallel to that?
16:04:27 And what would be omitted and and then also it sort of seems like some topics were the same in content but they were renamed in the Portland plan.
16:04:31 So I just wondered if you could talk a little bit about that.
16:04:34 >> NIKI: Definitely.
16:04:42 So we got to the analysis description which is like that whole list of things we would want to make sure we're taking a look at.
16:04:48 I actually started with the assessment of fair housing, the latest version that I could  find.
16:04:52 And I listed out all of those things.
16:04:55 We were looking at a few key factors.
16:05:05 One is, you know, is -- do we have access to that data in easy enough format we're not holding up a lot of planning process, right?
16:05:22 I know everybody here wants to get to the advocacy position and portion of implementing this plan, and, you know, there are going to be some limitations in terms of timing and what kind of data we have available for our jurisdiction, so some of the decisions were made that way.
16:05:40 I think primarily if we looked at some of the things around accessible housing, we did not feel that we had very strong data compared to what was asked in some of those areas.
16:05:46 That's definitely something we should look at and might be a great area to make program policy recommendations.
16:05:48 OK?
16:05:51 Because sometimes we just don't have the data we would like to look at.
16:06:00 Other things like the disSim clarity and displacement analysis.
16:06:06 There was some language that -- dissimilarity and displacement analysis.
16:06:23 There was some language that we felt wasn't necessarily appropriately received or not received in a positive sense from the community based on the expertise of the other people that worked in the Portland  Housing Bureau and went through the fair housing process before.
16:06:38 Words like integration and segregation that imply that certain populations, there needs to be a certain quota within jurisdictions that didn't feel really representative of what the goal was to get to.
16:06:50 And there were other tools like a dissimilarity index that felt like they naturally lent themselves to looking at this area of work in a way that would allow us to get to a comprehensive plan faster.
16:06:52 That was a lot of words.
16:06:53 I hope that made sense.
16:07:00 So we kind of went through each section Marisa to make the decisions.
16:07:03 It primarily came from PHB staff.
16:07:09 >> MARISA: All right, so this is a place where we would be able to give our feedback on that or is that ?
16:07:10 OK.
16:07:15 Um, well, I'm glad you mentioned the dissimilarity and displacement section.
16:07:17 I would love to hear from others on this.
16:07:30 I know there's a balance  between, you know, kind of being really jargony or, you know, looking into Sim man tacks rather than uncovering issues.
16:07:55 For me, I understand that pushback around using the term segregation or integration and historically the usage would have certain connotations, especially among certain populations and I think what I see there -- and I think I saw this in other translations -- I would just say of
16:08:04 headings -- would be -- because I 30 there was another section that was racially or ethnically concentrated areas of poverty.
16:08:08 That was concentrated to low-income housing analysis.
16:08:31 For me, I feel like I'm -- for me, that's kind of flagging this concept of like not being explicit about race, not that that's what you're trying to do, but for me, that feels like a real principle of this type of work is to say explicitly is this a topic or matter related to
16:08:32 race?
16:08:37 And how are we centering that or how are we reflective of the situation at hand?
16:08:41 Even when it is clearly very contentious?
16:09:03 I think segregation is one -- you know, having grown up in a very racially segregated community, that's definitely one of the pieces I think about a lot is that people can temper the fact of segregation and it's overlooked because we see our communities as being the way they are
16:09:09 just as a coincidence or like, hah, just so happens to be there are no black people in my community.
16:09:13 And I'm just concerned about not using terms like that.
16:09:38 >> NIKI: I will point out for the recap that's a technical term is what I learned and we actually do not have an area within Portland that meets the definition of what that term is, and that is why we try to come up with another area of analysis that could get us there but we
16:09:41 don't have recap areas from my understanding from the data  team.
16:09:47 And so that is where the rationale for that changes,  Marisa.
16:09:58 So there are things like particular definitions that are kind of built into federal fair housing and we also don't want to conflate what we're doing by using those terms without actually meeting the definition.
16:10:03 >> MARISA: That makes a lot of sense.
16:10:06 I wouldn't want to use a term incorrectly.
16:10:12 For segregation, for example s that one we would be prohibited from using?
16:10:13 >> NIKI: Nope.
16:10:16 My understanding is, no, we're not prohibited.
16:10:28 The integration segregation was kind of feedback and I can -- I will take that back that, you know, maybe the community doesn't feel as strongly about the terms based on what the committee kind of comes up with today.
16:10:41 And so we thought that dissimilarity and displacement just might be better areas of analysis than simply looking at integration and segregation.
16:10:44 That's something this committee could explore and I could certainly bring that.
16:10:48 Taylor?
16:10:53 Feel free to unmute.
16:10:58 >> TAYLOR: I have a question about the analysis description and our role.
16:11:07 It looks like the analysis is not just quantitative but really framing the extent and depth of the problem, if you will.
16:11:22 Like it's a lot of data and analysis up front but there's not a section for policy analysis but this group is supposed to be making, I believe, policy recommendations and I was wondering if it's possible for the staff work plan to include any policy analysis or best practices
16:11:33 analysis about other fair housing enforcement mechanisms and other jurisdictions a's tool this body could use to kind of bridge the gap between -- or just have ideas for us to discuss.
16:11:33 Right?
16:11:45 I think like getting examples of best practices and some staff opinion and feedback on, you know, pros and cons or concerns to certain approaches I think would be a super helpful tool to inform our discussions as a  body.
16:11:48 >> NIKI: Yeah, I think that's great.
16:11:51 I did cut down, because some of it was getting very long.
16:12:08 It was kind of the contributing factors, for example, I don't know if you've ever looked at the assessment where they repeat the same words over and over and one of them is kind of like an area to review any relevant policy within your jurisdiction and I feel to reflect that in
16:12:10 this document, but definitely noted and, yes, thank you, Taylor.
16:12:12 Jay?
16:12:28 >> JAMILA: OK, um, just to clarify, we're putted -- putting together, you're looking to put together a team to do another analysis similar to the one from 2011 and these are the areas that we're --
16:12:31 >> NIKI: This would be getting us to that plan, right?
16:12:33 Ultimately, we'll do the analysis.
16:12:34 We'll review them.
16:12:43 We will look at the recommendations from 2011 to see which ones, you know, are there -- is there progress on this recommendation?
16:12:45 Is it still needed based on what we just learned?
16:12:46 Do we want to include it again?
16:12:59 And as Taylor suggested, I could bring best practices and other policies from other jurisdictions to look at and see how they compare to ours and in the end, we'd have a newest is updated recommendations.
16:13:01 >> JAMILA: OK.
16:13:17 I, um, so I don't know where this falls in but I always know when I need to say something, so when we talk about integration, segregation and then displacement, how are we -- are we -- are we using just numbers or are we going to the story blind it?
16:13:20 Are we talking about the impact of displacement?
16:13:34 The exclusion of whether you're -- if you're integrating into a neighborhood and you're saying we have -- like sometimes we're -- I know New York does this, and I think we do it, too, there'll be a new structure and then they'll have a lottery and x amount of people have to be
16:13:43 from this background or this background to get the lottery apartments, but the impacts of those can be detrimental, one, to like the community.
16:13:44 Like, the black community.
16:13:45 Northeast Portland is gone.
16:13:47 There's no black community in Oregon.
16:13:53 There's no place for people, black folks to feel safe in Oregon like it used to be when I was a child.
16:13:54 You know what I mean?
16:13:58 So are we considering the -- those stories or is it just number?
16:14:03 >> NIKI: No, we definitely could include the stories.
16:14:08 I think I have in here kind of a section about individual interviews within the community feedback.
16:14:17 My thought was that then we -- you know, we'll list that feedback and we can do interviews with folks and then we can incorporate what we hear into the final product.
16:14:20 Yeah.
16:14:37 For the purposes of, um, you know, getting to a set of draft recommendations, we could try to work in those individual interviews or try to get some additional community input on the front end of these meetings.
16:14:39 That might be something that we could explore.
16:14:50 I don't know how feasible but we could look at that rather than just, you know, the committee's experience about the impact of these things we're looking at.
16:15:08 It'd be a matter of kind of coordinating, right, whether we wanted to listen to, you know, the numbers and the quantitative and the qualitative simultaneously versus going through the quantitative and then, you know, following up with community listening and interviews.
16:15:13 This is at the end and then incorporating, so it's a process question.
16:15:14 I'm completely open to that.
16:15:28 >> BARBARA: Hi, this is Barbara again.
16:15:29 Can I interject again?
16:15:32 >> NIKI: Yes.
16:15:33 Of course.
16:15:37 >> BARBARA: I'm confused.
16:15:38 Here are the laws.
16:15:40 If you don't follow the laws, you get in big trouble.
16:15:42 You could be used sued.
16:15:43 You could lose your license.
16:15:46 That's the way -- that's how my world is in real estate.
16:15:57 So when I look at this -- the work plan memo I got, I took down notes.
16:15:59 I said what does this have -- I'm sorry.
16:16:03 I don't mean to be critical but disparities and access to opportunities?
16:16:26 I don't understand when I have a client and I'm intending not to violate that person's fair housing rights ever, it doesn't even odour me to look at the disparities and access to opportunity -- it doesn't even occur to me to look at the disparities and access to opportunity.
16:16:28 Education?
16:16:33 I've been subjected to racial discrimination since I came to Oregon.
16:16:34 I have two college degrees.
16:16:42 Education -- should that mean I shouldn't be discriminated against since I have higher education than someone else?
16:16:51 You listed employment, transportation, but -- so I don't understand why those things are there.
16:16:53 That's -- I just don't.
16:16:55 And -- OK.
16:17:08 Um, and so I think, you know, you may get fired of me doing this but my focus is -- you may get tired of me doing this but my focus is and always has been what is the law?
16:17:09 What's it mean?
16:17:10 How can you apply it?
16:17:12 How do you make sure it's enforced?
16:17:15 How to avoid being sued?
16:17:17 How to avoid losing my license?
16:17:18 How to be fair and right?
16:17:19 You know?
16:17:23 And just and be a good citizen.
16:17:29 So fair housing violations occur because someone is willing to break the law.
16:17:32 I think it's simple as that, isn't it?
16:17:55 And, um, where fair housing violations may be more prevalent in certain communities or groups simply because of ignorance of the law among the victims of fair housing violations, um, someone is violating the law and those are the people we need to be focusing on.
16:17:57 How do they get away with that?
16:18:00 How -- you know, forget why they're doing it.
16:18:04 It's just how do they get away with it?
16:18:17 When it was said black people represent 10% of tenants but 40% of harassment, I thought it was such a profound logistic to throw out in a meeting.
16:18:20 Thanks.
16:18:23 >> NIKI: Thank you for sharing, Barbara.
16:18:30 I think Allan and Marisa have their hands up.
16:18:35 Allan, did you have a comment or want to respond to Barbara?
16:18:38 >> ALLAN: I wanted to respond to Barbara.
16:18:59 The question why we would look at inequities to access to opportunity and I think for me it's less of this is that a factor in fair housing violations and more of a -- it's a factor in the outcomes of inequitable fair housing distribution, I guess is the way I'd look at it,
16:18:59 right?
16:19:08 These are the results of what folks don't have an opportunity to have access to fair housing choice.
16:19:13 It's important for us to see what those factors look like, right?
16:19:25 And we know there are parts of town that have better access to these elements that we're looking at here and the question then becomes does everybody have equal access in housing to where those pieces are?
16:19:46 And they -- not only that, but they're also -- they've also been developed historically based on the desire to exclude some people from those areas and so there's a clear historic pattern that follows those access to resources so it becomes an important factor when we think about
16:19:52 this element of housing that really again is rooted in what opportunities we have.
16:20:02 And I guess while I'm off -- the other thing I'll say about opportunity is it'd interesting to talk about and maybe you did is the flip side of vulnerability.
16:20:05 Should that be a consideration in our evaluation, right?
16:20:18 Not only is it access to opportunity but areas that are vulnerable right now to either displacement or other factors that would really create inequitable communities.
16:20:27 >> NIKI: Feel free to unmute.
16:20:29 >> MARISA: Sure.
16:20:35 I really appreciate Barb sharing that perspective of someone on, working in real estate.
16:20:58 I think just maybe more -- maybe not speaking specifically to be able to answer all of those questions, I would say that it is very important when we look at issues of racial equity to really consider that when we focus on individual actions or actors, we're -- we run the risk of
16:21:11 ignoring social, political policy and historical factors and that's so much of the context of fair housing and racial housing inequality in our country.
16:21:36 Like it's not just the story of bad guys versus good guys and, In fact, I think that could be a real impediment to advancing equities when we realize there are other ways in which either policy mechanisms or communities the way they're structured, our institutions, our
16:21:53 organizations, things like that all come together in this tangled web, so I just want to point that out, not just for this conversation but for all conversations that we really need to look a bit further just the individual actor.
16:22:03 >> JAMILA: Yes, I agree with you.
16:22:22 Also, Barbara, to your point, yes, it is that simple for us to take all of the data from history and every time I go into an organization, I'm always  like, y'all could pay me, but you already have the answers, so I'm about to take your money and we could get 20 people up in
16:22:39 here that's been here for 20+ years and they can tell you all the things you need to do, but this analysis paralysis is constant going over the data, over the data to the point where everybody's time is up, everyone is exhausted and we've not gonen anywhere.
16:22:42 The people who are actually -- to -- gotten anywhere.
16:22:50 The people who are actually -- to me -- I understand it's necessary to do it again since it's not been done since 2011 and this is history.
16:22:52 We know what is happening here.
16:22:55 This is not -- we're not going to find anything new.
16:23:00 We might find a slight in numbers because there's an increase in Oregon.
16:23:00 Know what I mean?
16:23:10 It is -- what it -- I personally want us to be focused on action and this analysis over and over.
16:23:14 I have no interest on being on a part of a team that will be going through data.
16:23:15 It's triggering.
16:23:17 I grew up in Portland.
16:23:22 It's very triggering to go through this over and over and over and keep hearing the things you've already known.
16:23:33 Like, when we look at the history of the -- specifically the black community in Oregon and how many times they've been displaced, how many times do we need to analyze that before we're like, let's do something!
16:23:41 How many times do we -- how many friends do we have to have talking about they didn't get this apartment, this apartment, it's -- where is the action?
16:23:49 And how long do we -- one, how long is this project team -- what's the length of time we're going to take to do this analysis?
16:23:58 And then how does that look for the length of time we're going to actually do something, that we're committing to actually doing something?
16:24:07 I think one, the doing something time should be way longer, because we're not going to find anything new.
16:24:09 We're never going to find any new.
16:24:11 It's the same shit all the time.
16:24:15 It's a small increase or decrease in the number based on people moving out of a community.
16:24:17 It's extremely triggering.
16:24:18 I'm going to stop.
16:24:34 >> I'm going to chime in and maybe use an example that may be easier to process that I think really highlights why this is important is as it relates to assistance -- assistants animals and other animals in housing, right?
16:24:51 Taking like, you know, systemic racism and the things we should be considering, sometimes there's just a lack of clarity around how something should be handled and the fair housing council says, yeah, you got to allow these assistance animals in your housing and in your rental
16:24:54 housing but then we all know it isn't that easy, right?
16:25:17 And so I think that is a really good maybe, you know, example to kind of use to take some of the, just some more painful stuff out of it, is just I wish everybody always did the right thing, but competing interests sometimes means they don't, and the accountability piece I think
16:25:31 should also involve analysis and potentially recommending changes to policies because, yeah, like has been brought up so many times in this group, it is all kind of working together which I think could make it hard to pin down but also important that we are get something shape
16:25:35 and structure here so that we do know what we're doing.
16:25:50 Barbara, I do value your opinion as relates to you being a unique person on this -- it sounds like potentially or folks have not spoken up but I hope you continue to speak up and present your perspective on what we're doing here.
16:26:00 >> BARBARA: I appreciate that you said that.
16:26:00 Thank you very much.
16:26:06 >> NIKI: OK.
16:26:19 It sounds like I got feedback on some great points around, you know, ensuring we have some policy analysis and best practices to give us some ideas and help inform conversations as we look at each of these areas.
16:26:32 Talking about the impact of displacement and making sure that we're not too focused on the quantitative here, that we are including the lived experience and making sure that remains a focus.
16:26:38 Looking at areas of vulnerability and not just opportunity.
16:26:40 I've got good take-aways here.
16:26:58 I feel like there could probably be more feedback and more thoughts to come so what I'm going to do is send out an e-mail with this information attached again to all of you individually so you can respond to me individually with your feedback.
16:27:15 Feel free to give me feedback on everything from what bureau might be relevant to areas of analysis that you don't feel like are reflected, things you feel like are just not included, contributing factors that maybe overlooked, and I'm just going to compile everything together
16:27:20 and we'll see what we can incorporate and then move forward from there.
16:27:31 I'm hoping this does give us a little bit more structure to get to a place where we have that final set of recommendations and move into strategizing how to put those into action.
16:27:45 To Jay's point in terms of timing, that's also in the bottom section based on PHB and doing the quantitative number crunching.
16:27:49 Analysis, when we can look at these things at the earliest for each section.
16:27:57 I know our next conversation led by Marisa will be talking about meeting scheduled.
16:28:04 That may be impacted and moved based on what we come to here in this final section of our meeting.
16:28:06 OK.
16:28:08 All right.
16:28:17 And with that, I'm going to pass this to Marisa to take over the next and final item on the agenda.
16:28:21 >> JAMILA: Can you speak to your comment in the chat?
16:28:28 Displacement segregation today created from legal methods such as finances?
16:28:45 >> NIKI: Ru is a member of the public.
16:28:47 >> RU: Can you hear me?
16:28:47 Great.
16:29:01 I might have jumped in on the call just a little bit late but I think from what I'm hearing is you're trying to figure out ways to stop some of the displacement?
16:29:10 Is that part of the conversation?
16:29:32 >> MARA: Our main goal is around fair housing and making sure the laws that's been put in place to protect protected classes are actually being respected and part of what we're talking about or what we're looking at as potential analysis to whether or not it is is issues like
16:29:32 displacement.
16:29:34 >> RU: Right, right.
16:29:35 I was just wondering.
16:29:41 I don't think anything today is really explicit like what is happening in north Portland for instance.
16:29:52 I know a lot of the older community which is predominantly African-American at one point because of red lining that the displacement today is really based on finances, isn't it?
16:30:03 I don't think there's like anything nefarious anyone is doing, at least from what I can see.
16:30:18 >> MARISA: If I can take a stab at answering that and also keeping us on schedule, I would say there's a pretty large body of evidence that would indicate otherwise, that it hasn't all been benevolent actors, because gentrification isn't just limited to the city of Portland and
16:30:40 it is by and large at least in the last several decades very racialized, so, Ru, I would say that's a great question for us to keep in mind as we develop the fair housing plan, because, um, that was one of the things that was going to probably submit as a comment later is, you
16:31:02 know, having there be some method by which we explain certain context that is historical and also maybe supplemented by other evidence in research might be great for folks to kind of start at the same point when we also discuss how this reflects locally so if we're saying
16:31:18 displacement, here are the numbers on displacement, maybe we also point to resources that explain a bit more about what, how that came about and why it is an issue of fair housing or why it is an issue of equitable access to housing.
16:31:21 Maybe that kind of could be something that gets included.
16:31:27 >> RU: OK.
16:31:31 Reach out to me.
16:31:36 A guy I know that was priced out is one of my friends and could probably speak on it as well.
16:31:37 >> MARISA: Thank you.
16:31:39 Appreciate that.
16:31:40 OK.
16:31:44 Should we jump into the next topic?
16:31:44 All right.
16:31:48 So, yeah, this one I don't know if it will take a whole half hour.
16:32:03 But I think the reason we have this on the agenda -- and we did want to leave time for discussion -- is because as you've seen today, you know, we have more work beginning, right?
16:32:11 There has definitely been a period of -- I think as Niki put it, holding pattern.
16:32:19 The purpose of this committee -- there was a piece in there of, like, does this work need to happen now?
16:32:20 How's it going to look?
16:32:21 What's the federal government telling us?
16:32:35 Now, we kind of have a plan moving forward and we're talking about some complex work that should include maybe more interactive input from the committee.
16:32:48 As we saw between the last meeting and now, it did take some extra time to really have the opportunity to say here's my thought on these particular reports we're seeing.
16:32:50 Here are my questions, etc.
16:33:02 So -- and Niki and Jay, correct me if I'm wrong but one of the thinks we want to propose to the group is we look at potentially meeting more.
16:33:17 We also know that folks have limited availability, but historically, there were reasons, maybe, Niki, you can refresh my memory on this, to have this be a quarterly meeting and those reasons may not be quite as relevant now.
16:33:37 So, again, if there was a way to maybe fulfill a need to have there be more discussion, more deliberation and more collaboration as a group while also respecting everyone's time, that would just be wonderful  and, um, so be yeah, I just kind of want to put that out to the
16:33:42 group to just talk about what that looks like or what that could look like.
16:34:04 >> NIKI: I'll jump in to respond to Marisa, yes, it's my understanding based on previous feedback provided by the prior committee to move to a quarterly schedule, but now that we're here, you know, there's -- it doesn't necessarily mean we have to stay there.
16:34:07 And we can explore some other options.
16:34:17 There's also ideas like subcommittees that could be formed so that not the entire committee needs to meet on a more frequent basis, but, yeah, I'll just kind of follow up.
16:34:24 We started with quarterly because that was the feedback, but, again, I'm not sure it's relevant to get into the reasonings why.
16:34:26 It was a different group of folks at a different point in time.
16:34:52 >> BARBARA: Niki, the last committee group, I believe I asked why we don't meet more often and what Kim said to me was that -- I think it was Christine was with.
16:34:53 [indiscernible]
16:34:55 At that time and she didn't have more time to meet.
16:35:00 That was the explanation that was given to me.
16:35:01 I didn't follow up on that.
16:35:02 Is that still true?
16:35:16 Do we need to have a resident attorney from certain firms like legal aid or do we -- is that a requirement?
16:35:34 >> NIKI: There are certain community partners that might have as part of their contracts they participate in this committee, but as far as that specific situation, no, Christina actually works in the rental services office at this point.
16:35:52 Obviously, though f we do decide to explore other options, we'd want the majority of the committee members to be able to attend those meetings or create a subcommittee or something like that, so besides just work, we want to make sure everyone has the capacity to increase which
16:35:53 hopefully this conversation explores.
16:36:03 >> MARA: I'd be available to meet more often or volunteer for some kind of subcommittee.
16:36:13 I'm only on one other committee right now and would be willing to dedicate more time to this topic, especially if we got a little bit more firm idea of what we're doing.
16:36:15 That'd be awesome.
16:36:27 I am on the Metro housing bond and that's picking up a lot right now, but I still see myself as having time to dedicate to more meetings, especially if they were shorter but more might be good, too.
16:36:27 Yeah.
16:36:40 >> BARBARA: This is Barbara, again.
16:36:48 Yes, I didn't say, I'm definitely more available for more meetings -- definitely available for more meetings.
16:36:51 I'm interested in more topical meetings, maybe more specific.
16:36:58 As a subcommittee, we can take that impediment report from, what was it?
16:37:19 2011 and go over it piece by piece, because, I mean, I read that, I don't know, three, four years ago, five years ago when I started coming to some of the meetings and there were pieces in there, there was verbiage that I -- that I would actually like to question as far as is
16:37:21 this really going to be effective?
16:37:23 Should it be in the plan?
16:37:24 Should we be more specific?
16:37:31 So definitely I just want to place my vote that I'm interested in much more frequent meetings, more time.
16:37:32 Thanks.
16:37:54 >> MARISA: Just to keep the conversation going, sometimes it could help to just throw out some specifics, so now, right now we meet quarterly, every three months, so the closest thing to that would be every two months unless we're breaking months apart, but every two months.
16:38:01 Does that sound like something people like or even monthly which I'm sure people will find a bit more difficult to do?
16:38:07 So if you want to weigh in on those specifics, that'd be great to hear.
16:38:07 It'd be great to hear more thoughts.
16:38:16 >> BARBARA: I don't find monthly meetings difficult.
16:38:18 I don't find two hours a month difficult.
16:38:21 Am I a minority?
16:38:26 >> JAMILA: Not until the two hours come up.
16:38:27 Every six weeks?
16:38:28 Every month and a half?
16:38:32 >> MARISA: That's another option.
16:38:34 Any excitement here?
16:38:43 >> BARBARA: If we have subcommittee meetings, do we need a quorum?
16:38:45 Do they become public or can we meet?
16:38:48 >> NIKI: My understanding is that they would still be public meetings.
16:39:03 They would still need to be posted and the quorum would be based on how many of the large committee members are assigned to the subcommittee, so similar to maybe the executive committee right now has a smaller forum since there's only our chair and vice chair.
16:39:09 >> BARBARA: OK.
16:39:15 >> NIKI: I'm open to -- I want to hear what you guys want and then I'm going to try to bring it back and figure out what the best solution is, you know?
16:39:22 I wouldn't say, you know, give me, you know, your ideal scenario and I will, you know, take that back up and see how I could make that work.
16:39:31 >> ALLAN: I see folks supporting six weeks or a month and a half.
16:39:34 It's twice a quarter to think about meeting, right?
16:39:50 I want to acknowledge what Jay's comments were earlier about spending our time going through data that is trying to prove what we already know, and so I -- I think it's important for us, you know, if -- that -- if we are going to reconfigure the schedule it might address that
16:40:08 issue and get us to a point further down the line -- closer -- get us to a point quicker where we're talking about the actions and compressing the data piece and expanding the -- I'm talking about actions and looking at how the folks that are here that are offering some expertise
16:40:17 or connections to communities might help move that forward, so that's some of what I heard and would support those pieces in the process.
16:40:42 >> MARISA: If I could throw out an idea, um, one of the things it sounded like there was energy behind in the conversation about the fair housing plan which I think maybe was Taylor's suggestion was this idea of incorporating a look at best practices and enforcement and so if we
16:40:57 were to talk about creating a subcommittee, possibly a good topic that could bring in some of the data but especially really be action-oriented could be something focused on reviewing what the best practices are, what pilots exist or what policies exist that we would want to
16:41:02 recommend potentially here.
16:41:05 Folks have thoughts that -- on that?
16:41:21 That could be the place where we may see a recommendation that's analogous to parking tickets for fair housing violations.
16:41:26 >> JAMILA: Say that again?
16:41:31 >> MARISA: That could be the place where we talk about something that's like as simple as parking tickets as you were saying.
16:41:36 Where we know that those enforcement actions do take place.
16:41:38 We could talk about that more.
16:41:43 >> JAMILA: Talk about that more.
16:41:46 I'm sorry.
16:41:47 I was typing back to Ru.
16:41:48 I'm like no.
16:41:54 >> MARA: I like the six-week idea.
16:42:09 I also want to make sure is there opportunity to kind of play with this as we move along if the group changes our mind or if maybe things get a little bit more activated that we could then meet more frequently or is it we're setting it for the term?
16:42:16 >> NIKI: I don't think we would want to change it a lot or  often.
16:42:18 I mean, these are public meetings.
16:42:24 The public needs to have some access of predictability to.
16:42:26 There's bylaws we need to pay attention to as well.
16:42:29 Is that set in stone forever?
16:42:44 No, not for as long as this committee exists which doesn't have an end date, so not set in stone but I would say let's try to have a good pattern and be committed to trying that out for a pretty good amount of time.
16:42:47 We could potentially ad hoc, I believe.
16:42:57 We just need to make sure we can give enough public notice of that meeting, get it posted on the website and obviously that any work products would have time to be available.
16:43:10 >> BARBARA: Are you talking about every six weeks for the full committee to meet?
16:43:14 That is not necessarily subcommittee time table, correct?
16:43:18 >> MARISA: I think both options are open at this point.
16:43:41 So we haven't -- doesn't sound like the group is clear on whether we want to create a subcommittee which would have maybe more flexibility on who attends or if these would actually be official meetings of the entire committee which would have more restrictions on ensuring more
16:43:44 people are attending if I'm understanding you correctly.
16:43:49 >>
16:44:11 >> BARBARA: I for one saw in the work plan memo there was one paragraph that said enforcement and then it listed lasso, FICO and BOLE and legal ad and fair housing council.
16:44:17 And something about the complaints, something about listing the kinds of complaints they get.
16:44:22 And I would be very interested in exploring those.
16:44:26 Maybe that would be done on a subcommittee level.
16:44:43 Also what home forward is referring to as harassment of black people, I would be very interested in pursuing that and exploring what that is like and what that looks like.
16:44:47 So --
16:44:48 >> MARISA: Thank you.
16:45:03 Wondering -- I know a couple people had to drop off but maybe someone we haven't heard from yet on this topic if you'd like to share your thoughts on this or typing -- or type it in the chat.
16:45:23 While I wait for that, I would also propose that maybe we do a survey, kind of quick poll we all see in our e-mail and include the subcommittee potential and maybe even include some of the potential topics the subcommittee would like to address.
16:45:30 I would really like to second Jay's suggestion that this be really action-oriented as much as possible.
16:45:33 I think this would be a great outlet for that.
16:45:39 >> JAMILA: Yeah, I like --
16:45:43 >> NIKI: Yeah, I like the idea of that kind of best practices pilot.
16:46:01 I'm not a committee member, but that sounds exciting to me as your staff before to support you guys through that I will put together a poll and I do think what I'll do is ask about do you want to keep the frequency for the full committee where it is or increase it?
16:46:23 Or would a subcommittee be more appropriate, potential topics or areas of focus for those subcommittees and if you're interested in subcommittee to participate or not and then I can bring that back for review to the executive committee and to the full committee at our next
16:46:23 meeting.
16:46:27 >> MARISA: That sounds great.
16:46:42 >> NIKI: Just to clarify in the meantime, we won't be changing the meeting schedule until we get to a plan of consensus here so the next meeting will be in April and don't expect any change until after then.
16:46:59 >> JAMILA: For the subcommittee -- if we're ever thinking about putting a subcommittee, could it be -- were you saying this?
16:47:13 More action-based subcommittee where we're doing -- we have an analysis going on and then we're taking things that came out of the 2011 or the audit report and we're planning big-picture planning around that?
16:47:35 >> MARISA: I would say yes and it shouldn't necessarily be limited to the 2011 report, so like what I would put in that broader bucket is best practices or enforcement or ideas, being things that weren't existence yet in 2011 and also just weren't in Portland.
16:47:46 When it's in Portland, we can talk about city-level policies that, create more rules around housing is done.
16:47:51 We've seen some of that in recent years around landlord/tenant law.
16:48:05 It'll be interesting to do a scan of national initiatives from other cities or states and just review those and obviously you'd have to incorporate some level of data to do that, but it wouldn't just be about the data.
16:48:08 It would also be about would this work here?
16:48:11 Why would this be appropriate in Portland, etc.?
16:48:25 >> JAMILA: Do we have a list of the laws and the way the laws are -- whatever laws around -- exist around fair housing and how they're enforced?
16:48:30 Is that a thing already so we can look at the enforcement and how effective it is?
16:48:39 Because my concern is, like, if we have -- back to analyzing is we don't know if it's not working if we haven't done it yet.
16:48:40 I don't know what we're doing.
16:48:43 How do we know what we're doing and how effective it is?
16:48:46 I think that's it.
16:48:47 Does that make sense?
16:48:58 >> MARISA: Yeah, I know an old --
16:49:03 >> MARA: I had an old policy professor that called it plagiarism.
16:49:06 We would look at geographically similar areas.
16:49:08 Would you want to look at a city that is similar.
16:49:10 That's where it could get kind of hard.
16:49:19 That's where we kind of get this concept of states rights and county rights and all sorts of things is trying to adjust to the needs of your area.
16:49:21 >> JAMILA: I'm thinking specifically for Portland, though.
16:49:26 Do we have laws and laws that are being enforced right now around fair housing?
16:49:34 >> MARA, yeah, there's the fair ordinance.
16:49:38 I'm not the person to list all of these.
16:49:39 I hear what you're saying.
16:49:41 Look at other ones that impact folks.
16:49:46 I do know that's important in policy work to look at another town.
16:49:55 You have to make sure it's close to Portland in terms of things that's been done that we can also do -- if that makes sense -- that we haven't done already, the data you're talking about.
16:50:09 >> MARISA: Jay, are you saying an index of fair housing laws and fair housing adjacent laws would be a place to start for work like this?
16:50:11 We could be looking at that first?
16:50:32 >> JAMILA: Yeah, we -- yeah, if we -- if we know what the laws are and then we bring the analysis in, then we know where the laws are being violated in that gray area in there and then we -- it feels like we could have more -- more information on what's effective with the laws
16:50:40 and the enforcement because, you know, we got to try some shit before we could try some other shit.
16:50:46 Figure out what is working and what is not working and throw out what is not working and reassess it.
16:50:49 It'd be nice to know what is out there and working and what is not working.
16:50:57 >>  ALLAN: Fair housing laws tend to be a pretty narrow band of law.
16:51:00 So generally what you'll find is here's fair housing laws.
16:51:03 All of these are private rights of action.
16:51:07 They're not -- they're not like you get a fine for this.
16:51:16 It's you have to take these people to court and prove it in court you got discriminated against and then there are -- then the court decides what the punishment is.
16:51:20 There are few that have specific fines and then sometimes at the city level, there will be.
16:51:24 I don't know if that's true at the city of Portland level.
16:51:25 That kind thing I think you're asking about.
16:51:35 What might be helpful is -- I don't like to volunteer us for stuff but it might be good to know what kinds of settlements have been reached for what kinds of things.
16:51:36 Court actions.
16:51:38 And I don't know that there's an easy way to do that.
16:51:43 But that's generally how those laws get enforced, right?
16:51:46 Not necessarily -- that's how you get an outcome, right?
16:51:49 That's the typical outcome for a fair housing case.
16:51:51 It's not someone got a fine.
16:51:56 It's that they got took to court and here is what happened.
16:51:58 >> JAMILA: So frustrating.
16:51:59 Yeah.
16:52:08 >> MARA: The burden of proof when you're being discriminated against is a hard thing to handle for sure.
16:52:11 >> JAMILA: Nevermind they have 300 phone calls for the same damn building and everyone is talking about how racist they are.
16:52:14 It's like, but who is going to take them to court?
16:52:15 Especially on black and brown people.
16:52:18 They don't do that as a practice, you know what I mean?
16:52:20 It's like --
16:52:21 [sigh]
16:52:22 What are we doing here, y'all?
16:52:24 All right.
16:52:44 >> MARISA: Well, I agree that it would be great to have, you  know, some landscaping or something like that to really have a good place to start, you know, to look at these things and, um, yeah, I think it just sounds like, um, that would maybe harness some of the energy here
16:52:45 that we have.
16:52:58 Obviously, we're limited in some of the things we can do, but if nothing else, we can propose innovation and we can propose new solutions to try, so --
16:53:03 >> NIKI: I'll say I think some of it will come out as we move through each of these areas.
16:53:08 I think, you know, we're going to get those pieces, things around zoning, right?
16:53:17 It's going to come out and make themselves known as we look at specific areas.
16:53:22 And then there's going to be other pieces that, yeah, maybe they shouldn't just be sitting in the background implied, right?
16:53:36 Like the standard protective classes and the additional protective classes that Oregon has and things like criminal history that aren't necessarily included in that analysis description that I sent out.
16:53:56 Um, so I just wanted to comment, you know, because really when we're looking at that, especially when we get to the larger institutional structures, that's going to touch on a lot of different things that aren't simply and squarelily within the realm of ir-- squarely within the
16:53:57 realm of fair housing.
16:54:02 We'd have to be Allan to have all of the information possible.
16:54:08 Things, you know, it's a lot to, um, learn I guess I want to say is that too, right?
16:54:17 Some will be coming up as we move through the process and we can stop and learn more if we need to if we're not comfortable many -- if we're not comfortable.
16:54:29 >> JAMILA: One thing to think about in between in the next year, before our next meeting, is how does it benefit the city to enforce these laws?
16:54:31 To enforce Fay housing?
16:54:42 How's fines benefit and where could they put the money -- so, you know -- what's the insensitive for the city to fine people?
16:54:54 >> MARA: I went to a training for fair housing.
16:54:55 I was impressed.
16:54:57 The trainer talked about handling accommodations.
16:55:03 I thought his approach to it was done in a way that I was shocked to be honest.
16:55:09 It reminded me there's a lot of middle ground in being able to find that but also making sure that the people who need the information are getting it.
16:55:15 And I think that's really kind of where we're seeing injustice.
16:55:27 Yeah, the laws are there but, you know, how are people being supported and actually -- rights versus reality is what we short hand is it here at ILR, too.
16:55:35 How could groups like ours remove some of the reality and push it more towards where people are actually having their rights respected.
16:55:37 >> JAMILA: Yeah.
16:55:41 >> MARA: Legislation is different from hearts and minds, man.
16:55:42 Let me tell you.
16:55:42 That's different.
16:55:46 >> NIKI: That's great feedback to hear, Mara.
16:55:52 That's rental services office supported program to try to get that information out to smaller owner operators.
16:55:59 I'm happy to hear that a community member attended and was impressed with that information.
16:56:03 >> MARA: I went in as an operative, too.
16:56:04 Even with him knowing I was there.
16:56:09 So I was pleasantly surprised.
16:56:14 >> ALLAN: The legislation oftentimes starts with hearts and minds.
16:56:22 Even if we're working on here is hearts and minds, what we can end up with is legislation.
16:56:24 >> MARA: Thank you for that reminder.
16:56:27 >> NIKI: I was thinking about areas of education and how do you measure that, right?
16:56:40 And how do we know when it's not enough and the best -- you know, there's going to be some areas, too, that I think is reflected in the 2011 recommendations where it's like, you know, fund and continue to fund fair housing education.
16:56:54 Like, yes, but it may be difficult, right, to kind of find some type of data analysis, right, to back that up, so that's something to keep in mind, too, that it's not -- this is a structure for us.
16:56:57 You have to kind of -- architecture needs to be come up with.
16:57:05 I by no means expect we're going to be looking at numbers and throwing out policy recommendations and, you know, moving through it that way.
16:57:13 >> JAMILA: I just got done reading the book "Propaganda" written in 1920.
16:57:17 He's the godfather of propaganda which is now called public relations.
16:57:20 What we know is that hearts and minds are changed by public relations.
16:57:24 We could get the whole world to eat hamburgers.
16:57:25 We can get Portland to do this thing.
16:57:26 You know?
16:57:30 Like -- and I try to keep that in the front for our clients.
16:57:33 We need to -- it's the way we deliver the message.
16:57:35 It's the way we involve people in the messaging.
16:57:41 If we want them to change their hearts and minds, then we have to make -- we have to give them a reason so.
16:57:43 -- reason to.
16:57:44 Cheeseburgers are delicious.
16:57:49 There's a bigger picture even when we're thinking about how we're going to roll out our recommendations.
16:57:50 How are we going to do that?
16:58:12 >> NIKI: I'm let loving this conversation but we're getting close to time so I wanted to first clarify because I made a big blunder in the chat of the meeting schedule after talking about the meeting schedule for a bit.
16:58:18 To clarify, I will send out an invitation for the executive committee meeting.
16:58:30 So if you would like to sit and just listen in, you're welcome to do that, but for everyone beyond Marisa and Jay, you're not expected to attend.
16:58:43 We'll still have the full regular committee meeting in April, and there won't be any adjustments to the poll committee meeting until we get clarity on what we think is a good plan to propose.
16:58:50 Beyond that I have a plan to send out the memo again about this Portland fair housing plan.
16:58:52 Please look at the areas of analysis.
16:58:55 Take some time, send me that feedback.
16:59:05 I will also send out a poll so that we can see what people think about the meeting frequency and subcommittee topics.
16:59:11 >> MARISA: Thanks, everybody.
16:59:15 >> BARBARA: Quick question.
16:59:16 What about meeting in person?
16:59:16 You're in the new offices.
16:59:26 Do you have an outdoor area where those of white house are interested in meeting each other could -- where those of us who are interested in meeting each other could meet outside?
16:59:33 >> NIKI: Or office for PHB is not currently -- our office for PHB is not currently opened.
16:59:36 There was plans but with the new wave, those plans have changed.
16:59:38 I don't have a date for that yet.
16:59:44 I will let you know as soon as I hear more information about transitioning to in-person meetings.
16:59:48 In light of Covid.
16:59:55 >> JAMILA: We can't set it up on our own because it's quorum, right?
16:59:56 >> NIKI: Correct.
17:00:00 Yes.
17:00:01 OK, well thank you, everyone.
17:00:06 I really appreciate your time today and I will see you soon!
17:00:09 >> MARISA: Bye.
17:00:16 Thanks, everyone, and the executive committee.
17:00:17 Thank you for your hard work.